Status of Berlin, August-December 1959 99



there may be specific questions elsewhere in the world which involve
only the three powers.
    Mr. Herter then said that, regarding Berlin, the President, in his
talks with Khrushchev, had said that we would seriously negotiate. It
looks as though the British favor some kind of short-term interim solu-
tion to carry us over the period of the German elections. Our thinking
runs toward a longer-range solution, effective until German reunifica-
tion, possibly involving something like a "guaranteed city." The
Ger-
mans and the French may simply take the position that they will say
nothing about these matters. The President commented that, if they do,
they may be taking on the responsibility for the future of Berlin and
West Germany.
    Secretary Herter next raised the question of disarmament. The pos-
sibility of thinning out forces in Europe requires consideration. He said
he had discussed this with General Schuyler a few days ago3 and that
General Schuyler expressed strong opposition. In fact, Secretary Herter
thought we may have to make a virtue of necessity, since he under-
stands Defense feels they may have to remove some major units from
Europe. He recalled a plan prepared by General Norstad for inspection
against surprise attack that involved zones to the east and west of the
Iron Curtain through Germany, and inspection of military forces in
these zones by ground and air means.4 If this inspection proves success-
ful, there would then be a thinning out on each side of the line. The
French opposed this scheme. Mr. Herter said he has had discussions
with General Schuyler as to the true role and function of the NATO
"shield" of thirty divisions, arguing that any attack in Europe
which in-
volves the commitment of these shield forces would in fact inevitably
lead to all-out conflict. The President said the basic trouble here is the
German contention that we are really only talking about Germany. Mr.
Herter felt that we should begin talking with our allies on this general
topic. He recognized that bitter resistance to change may be evoked, and
that leaks by the French and Germans, having very unsettling effects in
Europe, must be anticipated. The President said he did not think he
would take the proposal for thinning out at the present time. He felt that
we should have this in the back of our mind as something to be achieved
through disarmament agreements. If we can reach agreement on total
strengths, for example, we could then let the "thinning" be the
indirect
result. Secretary Herter commented that on the broad question of disar-
mament it may be possible for us to delay action until January or Febru-
ary at which time technical studies might be started. But in the


    3No record of Herter's discussion with General Cortlan van Rensselaer
Schuyler,
SHAPE Chief of Staff, has been found.
    4Not further identified.